power directly off of Panels?

Posted by James Johnson on July 14, 2008, 08:41:16 PM

power directly off of Panels?
when using a 12v dc appliance directly off the battery bank, during the day while the sun is out, are you pulling power directly from the solar panel OR are you pulling power from the battery?

the reason I ask is that I'm trying to figure out just how much ah of battery I need for my system.

I'll be using 40w of 12v power for 6 hours a day during sunlight hours. The panel array will be 60w. So will the battery be acting in effect as a "voltage regulator" during the day and only be storing the extra 20w an hour?

thoughts?

James
 

Posted by Jon C on July 14, 2008, 11:05:57 PM

Re: power directly off of Panels? (Reply #1)
Just my thoughts on this James J............The battery is much like a storage capacity device.  If the voltage applied is higher, it charges, and if the load applied reduces the voltage, it discharges.  You lose around 1/4 of the applied charge energy during discharge due to inefficiencies in converting electrical energy to chemical energy, and back to electrical energy again. There are additional losses in the Inverter in converting DC to AC voltage........so it is not an ideal condition where you can just put in X amount of energy and get the X back out again.  So many things are variable, and you will have to experiment with this to see what your actual gain (or loss) is?  I love learning experiences :-)  Jon C.
 

Posted by John D on July 15, 2008, 09:49:44 AM

Re: power directly off of Panels? (Reply #2)
I agree that there are too many variables.  Maybe your least expensive option would be to get a Marine Deep Cycle battery from your local big-box department store.  Keep in mind that for best battery performance (life), avoid discharging it below 80% of capacity. 
   
 

Posted by John B on July 15, 2008, 11:27:42 AM

Re: power directly off of Panels? (Reply #3)
For the purpose of this "experiment" you can consider the pv panel to be dumping its power into the battery, and the 40watt load to be taking its power from the battery.

What you need to be careful of is if you have no sunshine for an entire day then the 40w load will discharge your battery by 40/12 * 24 hours or 80AH. This would be a significant drain on a decent 100AH deep-cycle 12V battery.

On the other hand, if you have no load for a couple of days and your pv panel is pushing 60/15, or 4 amps continuous (with 15V being the charging voltage of the pv panel) into your battery. Once the battery is fully charged you could end up damaging your battery if you do not have a charge controller in the system.
 

Posted by James Cormican on July 15, 2008, 12:40:32 PM

Re: power directly off of Panels? (Reply #4)
 storing the extra 20w an hour?

there is no such thing as watts per hour.  watts is a rate = joules per second, not a quantity.  watt-hours is a quantity.  this causes much confusion and is a common mistake.

first off, with a 60w array, anything above 40w instantaneous is great, as 60w assuming stc is unlikely.

second, unless your load is designed to run pv direct, you will want a battery.  you compare your watt-hours per day of load to your watt hours per day of production.  the latter must be higher.

third you must decide how many days of autonomy you would like. your battery must be able to handle the watt-hours of load for as many days as you want your system to work in absence of sun.

there is more, but this is the basics of off grid system design.  we talk at length about these topics in the courses.

if you tell me watt-hours per day of load, and days of autonomy that you want, i can suggest a battery and array for you.

cheers,

james

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