Max Lead Acid Discharge Current.

Posted by Jerry Wenzel on July 27, 2008, 09:21:08 PM

Max Lead Acid Discharge Current.
I'm planning a solar power system for our weekend cabin and have a question regarding discharge current.  I have a ProSine 2.0 2000 watt inverter with a 12V supply.  The main load in cabin will be CFL lighting which I calculated to be about 425 watt hours/day.  The other loads would be small appliances at about 325 watt hours per day.

A set of 6V GC2 Golf cart batteries (225AH) could handle that load with about a 33% Discharge.  However, I'm having trouble finding what maximum current a lead acid battery can put out without hurting it. At 2000 watts the inverter is going to pull close to 200A.  At its 4500 watt surge its closer to 600A.  Can anyone provide feedback on determining how much continuous and surge current a particular set of batteries can take?

Thank you,

Jerry
 

Posted by Thomas Allen Schmidt on July 28, 2008, 06:00:46 AM

Re: Max Lead Acid Discharge Current. (Reply #1)
I can't answer your specific question with a specific answer, but I can tell you the only way to know the answer would be to experiment under highly controlled circumstances with safety first. But of course, this would ruin the batteries wouldn't it?

Try as I did to find generalized information regarding this, I could not. It would seem that the battery manufacture would know this information if they had their batteries tested by a consumer safety advocate.

I am having a little trouble with your math though.
2000 watts / 12 volts = 167 amps
4500 watts / 10.5 volts = 429 amps
(10.5 being a typical LVD)
Surges of this nature will only last for a few seconds, correct? More than likely your planning includes at least a set of 4/0 cables. 4/0 THHN has a rating of around 200 amps depending on certain factors.
What is the biggest size wire recommended by Xantrex for your ProSine 2.0 inverter, and what is the inverters terminal lugs temperature rating? More importantly, what size fuse or breaker is recommended?

It would seem implausible that one would "dump" a load of 600 amps on just 2 - 6 volt golf cart batteries wired in series for 12 volts.
Something would have to give.
Maybe a bank with more batteries, but common sense would dictate a higher voltage be used if amp loads of this nature where anticipated. Also, this is where proper sizing of and the type of fusing would protect personnel and property.

Even in the world of alternating current electricity, when higher amperages are anticipated, a move to higher voltages is the typical response.
Think about it, why pull the larger more expensive wire for a 800 amp service at 240 volts 3 phase when you can pull wire nearly half that size at 480 volts 3 phase.
I hope something here helps you.
 

Posted by Jerry Wenzel on July 28, 2008, 09:29:49 AM

Re: Max Lead Acid Discharge Current. (Reply #2)
Thomas,

My estimate on current draw included inverter efficiency.
 
2000 watts/ 12volts = 167A.  167A / .85 % Eff = 196A.

The 600A was what the inverter manual said was its maximum current draw.

As you said, I don't think a set of golf cart batteries are going to put out 600A.  I'm looking for guidelines on what is the max current draw that a battery can handle.  Which, as you said, battery makers don't seem to publish.

Your correct about the surges only lasting a couple seconds. I only plan on having 1 appliance (microwave, toaster, etc) plus a lighting load on at any one time. 

Now that I'm seeing the size of wire used for a 12 volt system, I do see the logic in running higher battery voltages.  However, this is a weekend cabin with power for lights and a few appliances, so I think the 12 volt system will work fine.  I may look into bigger L16 batteries and check my inverter programming to see if it has a current limit setting.

Does anyone else have any more thoughts on the max current draw on a lead acid battery(s)

Thank you,

Jerry.
 

Posted by Travis M on July 28, 2008, 01:26:25 PM

Re: Max Lead Acid Discharge Current. (Reply #3)
The manufacturer of the battery should be able to tell you how fast you can charge and discharge it.  The more power you push or pull, though, the bigger the wire you're going to need.  I run 400A max through my 12v floor machine batteries in my electric truck, and I use 2/0 cable to connect them.  Golf cart batteries are often used in EV conversions, typically putting them in series for 120v dc @ 400 or so amps.

 

Posted by Ken Hall on July 28, 2008, 03:52:37 PM

Re: Max Lead Acid Discharge Current. (Reply #4)
Your question is confusing.  You say that your loads are 750 watthours or 882Wh at 85% efficiency. That is 73.5 amp hours.  Then you are talking about peaking at around 200 amps.  It shouldn’t happen.
If we pack most of that into 5 peak hours of usage, that would indicate a typical load of about 15 amps. Your peak loads probably won’t be more than 30-40 amps, unless there is something you haven’t told us about.

Batteries discharge rates (and charge rates) are discussed at C rates. Your 225 amphours is most likely a C20 rate, 20 hours to discharge or about 11.25 amps.  When you discharge it at a higher rate, you will not have the same capacity. You will get about 180-185 amphours out of it at a C5 rate (45 amps) or about 105ah if you use a C1 rate (225amps). A dead battery in less than ½ hour.

Your 73.5 AH gives you a state of charge (SOC) of about 67% on a daily basis. I would give some serious thought to doubling your battery bank. If you make it a 450 AH bank, that would prolong your battery bank life. It will give you about an 83% SOC on a daily basis, and 2 days power before you hit the 67% SOC.  It would also give you a 22.5 amp C20 rate. 

Without hearing about the charging side (panels, generator?) we really can’t talk fusing. But if your peak load or charge will actually be 40 amps or less, I would be tempted to fuse the system at about 50-60 amps and consider anything above that value to be a dead short.
 
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