Learning and rethinking my cabin power system

Posted by Jerry Wenzel on August 12, 2008, 03:27:06 PM

Re: Learning and rethinking my cabin power system (Reply #10)
Ken,

Do you know if there are any known problems with a marine battery disconnect in off grid installations?  I was looking at using one and I thought I read where someone was not recommending them because they heated up.  The model you pointed out looks heavy duty, and the fact that its marine grade and designed for use in gasoline powered engine rooms leads me to believe it must be safe.  I don’t have inspectors to worry about, I just want something that’s long lasting and safe.

BTW, I decided to go with the 4 AWT cables so I don’t have to worry about upsizing later.  SAMs club has Energizer 220ah GC2 batteries for $65.  I’m thinking 4 of these would be a good set of “learning” batteries.  A local farm supply store has a small high strength plastic pickup truck tool box that will hold 4 L16s.  Any reason why I shouldn’t be looking at using that for a battery box as long as I vent it?

Thank you,

Jerry
 

Posted by James Cormican on August 12, 2008, 06:58:32 PM

Re: Learning and rethinking my cabin power system (Reply #11)
i tend to be a nervous nellie and prefer listed enclosures with listed circuit breakers acting as disconnects.

i think simple batteries are a good choice for a good starter set.  the toolbox would be okay, but another idea for battery boxes on the cheap are igloo coolers.  4 golf cart batteries fit great in one of the big ones.  one holesaw and 2 4" landscaping  drain hole covers later and we had a decent battery box on the cheap.  add a zephyr vent and you are really stylin.  wood is another good option if you are handy.

i would totally rather see you save dough on the batteries and box than the dc load center.  i like outback's flexware 500dc.  it is big, and probably bigger than your needs right now, but you would have to grow probably to 6kw or a ton of dc loads before you would outgrow it.  i think we may have done the dc disco sizing on another thread.

good luck,

james
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Posted by Ken Hall on August 13, 2008, 03:43:39 AM

Re: Learning and rethinking my cabin power system (Reply #12)
I am not aware of any problems with the marine disconnects, when they are from a good company and sized correctly.  I've used tons of them on DC installations, both in smaller Alt Energy applications and on boats.  Most of the heating of electrical equipment happens when you push it above 90% of its rating. You won't be getting close to that.  I am not pushing the switch over James recommendation, just replying to your question.

I like his recommendation of the igloo cooler. I don't remember where your cabin is, but have the impression that it gets cold there in the winter. I was going to ask where exactly you are going to put the batteries and how cold you would expect that area to get in the winter.

When you say 4 AWT I am assuming you mean 4/0, not 4 AWG.  I’ve seen that terminology from a couple of “inverter stores”. It’s a bit of a sore point with me. 4/0 is “four aught” or sometimes “ought”. It means four zeros.  Call me old fashioned if you wish, but I can’t help but wonder how much they know, if they don’t even get the name right.
« Last Edit: August 13, 2008, 04:01:04 AM by ken hall »
 

Posted by Jerry Wenzel on August 13, 2008, 06:18:39 PM

Re: Learning and rethinking my cabin power system (Reply #13)
Ken,

Yes, I'm using 4/0 cable.  And your right, I picked up the AWT term from someone selling battery & inverter cables.

In regards to the igloo cooler.  I don't expect to use my cabin much in the dead of winter in NE WI.  Gets below 0 sometimes, -10 below may on a couple days.

My batteries will be in the cabin.

I'm thinking the cooler is eventually going to get as cold as the outside.  If kept topped off by a PV panel, the batteries should be good for -40 deg F.  Here comes my next set of questions:

Does keeping batteries float charged with a PV panel warm them to any extent?

If I'm not using them and its not cold enough to freeze them, is there any advantage to having them in a cooler to trap that charge heat?

Thanx,

Jerry
 

Posted by Ken Hall on August 15, 2008, 02:25:48 AM

Re: Learning and rethinking my cabin power system (Reply #14)
Jerry:
I am not the best person to ask about real cold weather for long durations, and batteries (California). Perhaps someone with more cold weather experience will jump in here.

What I can tell you is that I do not like to see a working battery get below about 50 degrees internal temp. The batteries have a large thermal mass, so they do not change temps rapidly. Using an insulated battery box helps keep the ambient temp extremes (hot or cold) from affecting the internal temp too much.
The float charge and the insulated box will help, but I would still expect the battery temp to drop over time. If you do make a snow trip, you would need to treat the battery as cold, even though you may have heated the cabin to warm and toasty.

The other topic that I'll toss at you is the box venting. I would give some thought to venting the box outside the cabin. While that may raise some cold weather issues, I would not want a battery bank venting fumes and H2 into the living space of a small cabin. During warm weather, heavy battery use, equalizing charges, etc, you can get a fair amount. The smaller your cabin is, the larger this issue would become.

Ken
 
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