Charge controller & inverter running at the same time

Posted by Michael McCandless on May 20, 2008, 05:25:07 PM

Charge controller & inverter running at the same time
I have a fundamental confusion/question on how a charge controller and an
inverter interact (I'm very new to this).

Say I have a PV array charging a battery bank through a charge
controller (eg Apollo T80).  And, I also have an inverter (eg Outback
VFX 3524) attached to the same battery back.

The T80 wants to go through 3-stage charging to charge the batteries.

Yet, at the same time the inverter possibly wants to draw lots of
current (say if I suddenly turn on an AC load).

How do these two "communicate" to do the most efficient thing?

EG, say it's a sunny day and the batteries are mostly charged so they
are in float right now, meaning they are not fully using the sun since
the panels could put out much more current.

Then, I suddenly turn on a vacuum cleaner on the AC output of the
inverter.  This will draw alot of current from the batteries.  Will
the charge controller "realize" this and up the current to the max
possible from the panels?  Or, will they remain in float charge, thus
wasting (not tapping) the possible current from the panels?  How is this
normally managed?
 

Posted by John D on May 21, 2008, 09:43:12 AM

Re: Charge controller & inverter running at the same time (Reply #1)
It is interesting to watch the meter on the charge controller as the loads change.  I've noticed that my batteries charge up pretty quickly on a sunny day, and the inverter goes to the "absorption" charging stage.  For example:  In the absorption stage the meter might indicate that charging is taking place at 20% of full capacity.  While my PV panels are capable of providing 25 amps to the load, panel current drops to 5 amps (as an example).  Then, the compressor on my refrigerator kicks in.  The load goes from 15 watts to 200 watts.  The charge controller quickly goes back to "Bulk" mode, providing as much current to the load and batteries as the PV panels are capable of producing. 

There are only a few possible scenarios, and it seems that the charge controller handles all of these in the most efficient manner possible.  The charge controller seems to power the load as the top priority.  Often, power from the panels can power the load, while still providing some power for battery charging at the same time.

On a cloudy day, with the inverter powering a load, you can watch the system go through all of the possible scenarios.  At one moment the power to the inverter load might be coming from the solar panels.  Then, a cloud passes over and the load is powered by batteries.  Often, the PV panels provide only a portion of the power needed by the load, and the rest comes from the batteries. 

I hope this answers your questions.
   
 

Posted by Michael McCandless on May 21, 2008, 10:08:28 AM

Re: Charge controller & inverter running at the same time (Reply #2)
That helps, thanks.  It's good to hear your setup seems to do the right thing.

But, how did your charger controller "know" to kick into bulk charging as soon as the compressor kicked in?  Is it just because the voltage on the batteries drops when they are providing so many amps?

What if instead of a compressor, it was a somewhat lighter load (say a small TV or something)?  Would the voltage on the batteries then drop less, and maybe the charge controller wouldn't "know" to kick in and provide current?

I'm trying to understand the mechanism by which the whole system manages to fully utilize the panels...

Also: I wonder if this is a reason to use "matched" inverter & charge controller.  EG if I get an Outback inverter & charge controller, they do communicate with one another (I think?) and so perhaps the inverter would tell the charge controller to provide more current?
 

Posted by John D on May 21, 2008, 12:25:07 PM

Re: Charge controller & inverter running at the same time (Reply #3)
Yes, battery voltage does drop as the load increases, and that causes the charge controller to provide more current (if possible).  The charge controller seems to do what it does based on battery voltage. 

When battery charging progresses through the "absorption" stage, the % of charge (amount of charge current) gradually declines as batteries become nearer to fully-charged. 

A small increase in the size of the load will cause the % of charge to increase.  A large increase in the size of the load will cause the controller to go back into the "bulk" charge mode. 

With my system, the charge controller and the inverter do not communicate with each other.  I have, however, added automation to switch my inverter on and off based on battery voltage, but that is a topic for a whole different conversation. 

In General:  The charge controller efficiently charges the batteries, while protecting the batteries from overcharging.  My added automation protects the batteries from over-discharging.

I've explained in detail how my system works on my blog:  http://solarjohn.blogspot.com

 

Posted by Michael McCandless on May 21, 2008, 01:15:37 PM

Re: Charge controller & inverter running at the same time (Reply #4)
Aha!  You are solarjohn Smiley  I love your blog and I'd already read all about how your system upgrade to use an AC transfer switch.  I think that's a great way to go.

So, if my charge controller is in "bulk" stage while the inverter has a load, I think this is as efficient as can be (the panels are being fully utilized).

If my charge controller is in "absorb" stage (constant voltage) while the inverter has a load, I think this should also be as efficient as can be because the charge controller will hold the voltage constant, thus delivering as much current as the inverter plus batteries need, combined.  In this case I'm actually wasting the panels, in that they could deliver more amps, but this is only because I haven't attached a large enough load.

Finally, if charge controller is in "float" stage while the inverter has a load, I think this may be OK because float stage is constant voltage.  The inverter will pull the current it needs from the charge controller.

OK I think it will "just work" Smiley  Thanks John.
 
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